Data Science: Revolutionizing Healthcare with Dr. Chris Myers & Jacob Behara

Doctor Chris Myers welcomes White Coat warriors to discuss data science

Dr. Chris Myers: The views expressed by myself and the guests of this podcast do not reflect the official policy or position of the US Air Force, Department of Defense or the US government. Welcome to white coat warriors. I’m your host, Doctor Chris Myers. And on this podcast we talk about human performance optimization and training paradigms for you, the young medical professionals and how you can use it in your own professional practices to help yourselves and your clients. Hello everyone, this is Doctor Chris Myers. And welcome back to another white coat warriors episode here on WCW. Today we’re going to be talking about data science. And today we have the pleasure of talking with with Jacob Behara, a tactical data scientist. Hey Jacob, welcome to the episode.

Jacob Behara: yeah, thank you man. I’m really excited to be here and this is gonna be a new environment for me because normally I’m talking to strength coaches on podcasts and talking to phds and to potential like well, med students and residents. That would be really cool. So I’m excited to be here.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yes, they’ve here. I mean this is a new realm for many of us. so before we kind of get into that and talk talking to like the nitty gritty of data science, again, I’m a numbers guy too. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jacob Behara: Yeah, so I grew up in grew up in Oklahoma. Was there for about 29 years of my life. Went to Oklahoma State University, got my bachelor’s and my masters. I guess before that I played baseball in high school. Wasn’t very good, but that was my sports. Played all kinds of sports growing up and it kind of led me into the human performance aspect, of my career and what I, what I’m interested in. So yeah, so. Went to Oklahoma State. Went to Oklahoma state.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah. Cutting in and out.

Jacob Behara: Maya, my headphones are like muting automatically for some reason.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah.

Jacob Behara: So, yeah, do you want me to do it? You mean to just go off audio? Ah, computer.

Dr. Chris Myers: let’s go ahead and put a pause. Hey Dell, what are your thoughts? Hello everyone. This is doctor Chris Myers here with another episode of White Coat warriors. Today here on WCW, we have the great pleasure of talking with Jacob Behara, data scientist. Yes, today we are going to talk numbers and how to best use them. So we’re going to pick Jacob’s brain here a little bit, see what his thoughts on data science. and how do you use science to help make decisions? Jacob, welcome to the podcast.

Jacob Behara: Thanks, Chris. I’m super excited to be here. this is going to be something new to me. So I normally talk to strength coaches and performance experts. so it’s going to be interesting, to be able to dive into the medical realm. I’m excited.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, same here. I mean, data drives a lot of our decisions and how it’s being used and this is just exciting stuff.

Your background is human performance and you work with military personnel

So before we get into numbers, let’s tell you, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jacob Behara: Yeah, so I grew up in Oklahoma, went to Oklahoma State University, played baseball in high school. I wasn’t very good, but it kind of like my background is human performance and I still, that’s what I still do. So that’s kind of got me started into being interested in athletics because I played all kinds of sports growing up. So went to Oklahoma state, started in, became with my bachelor’s in dietetics. So I’m kind of a jack in terms of my professional background as a strength coach. And then for the past five years I’ve been working with the tactical population, with the air force, army, in the data realm. So I’ve been all over, my strength industry background is in was with professional baseball and college athletics. And then a company called exos. And then now I’ve been working with like I said, the army and the air force. So working with wearables, working with mostly human performance data. And then recently some cool tbi stuff. So I’m excited about it. I ah, pitched myself every day. So I’m really excited to where I am. And I don’t know how I got here, but somehow I made it.

Dr. Chris Myers: That’s great.

What really interested you in getting into data science was your strength coach background

so what really interested you in getting into data science, especially with your didetics and exfis and strength coach background?

Jacob Behara: So it was kind of crazy because I fell into it. So I was working at exos at the time, which is ah, for those who don’t know, exos is they do a lot of combine training with with NFL athletes and then they also like I worked at a hospital so we were contracted to work with high school athletes. okay, some club sports and then general population, before that that was like kind of the end of my career to be the strength coach. But got a call from from a CEO that I worked with at my previous company and he said, hey, are you interested in doing sports science with Air Force and I was like, yes. And plus it was like a 20% rating. So I was like, I’m going, I’m finally going to tactical realm. and it kind of just like, I just kept going. You know, I started out just to be in a data collector and then work, and I was like, man, this is not, really doing anything. You just collect data, not do anything with the data. Yeah, I started moving in, about a year and a half later, I started learning how to, you know, clean and clean data, analyze data, visualize data, and then I’ve just kind of evolved into, eventually make it into what my job is called a data scientist. I wouldn’t consider myself just a complete data scientist, more of a data analyst slash data scientist. I’m not doing complex, algorithms or machine learning. M like, I don’t even know if we’re there yet in, terms of the human performance aspect. So, we can go into the difference between an analyst and a data scientist, but, it’s definitely like a combination of, you know, being, ah, a trying to be an expert and, you know, using, well, I guess we can get to it in a little bit. But, using the data to whether they print, predict things, or, you know, show logistical analysis or correlation. And then, you know, data science would be more of like cleaning, modeling the data, you know, setting up pipelines for the data, and then doing complex algorithms and machine, learning. So they’re different. But I would say most people are more of a combination than just a strictly data science data.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay, very cool. So with that, you know, it’s, there’s a lot to unpackage there and we’ll get into some of that. Right. So, but what are some, what is, what is some of the type of data that you collect and you look at on a daily basis?

Jacob Behara: So currently it’s not, it’s not the coolest data. a lot of it is, and I can’t, I have to be careful with what I talk about. But, I’ll give them the cool stuff.

First of the first cool stuff is sleep data. How do you utilize that data to inform leadership decisions

First of the first cool stuff is sleep data. So, wearables. so I’m not going to say which company, but I’m not going to disagree or agree with what you just said.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah.

Jacob Behara: So working with sleep data, from a massive perspective, like, okay, thousands of soldiers. so it’s a, it’s been very, very cool, to be able to show, how the data is over time. And what I’ve come to understand, especially with the sleep data, is that just giving somebody a wearable does not do anything for them. And that is like kind of my passion now is if you, if you’re going to give us a wearables to whether your population, your first, the number one thing you should do first is education. Because somebody looking at data and not knowing what it means, whether it be sleep efficiency, HRV, heart rate data, the algorithms that make up recovery scores, all that stuff, like without them understanding what that means, it really doesn’t do a lot for them besides tell them that they’re either sleeping great or sleeping like crap.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay.

Jacob Behara: that’s really the coolest thing I’ve been working with recently. So my background was like, it wasn’t just collecting the data, it was ah, setting up the data or setting up the technology inventory, the technology, doing everything possible and then getting into the collection process. So it was a, ah, it was a big, a big lift. but it’s it’s very cool with what we’re trying to do with it. and I think we made some mistakes, but yeah, it’s like just getting the rings on the fingers was, it was a huge win and now we’re trying to utilize it.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah. That fitting process is for large populations is interesting. I’ve been there in your shoes on that one. yeah. And I’m glad that you kind of talked that, because that’s been a central theme that we’ve talked about in the past couple of podcasts is how, our senior medical students and residents, how they can optimize sleep and such, and especially in the short period of time they may have. It’s the same thing in the tactical populations, as you very well know. They may only have four or 5 hours to sleep. So how can you optimize that short period of time with that as well? And so given some of that data, in generalistic terms. Right. What are some of the, with that data? I wanted to ask what lessons learned, but I know we probably can’t get into that. How do you utilize that data to kind of inform leadership decisions, if you can speak to that at all?

Jacob Behara: Yeah. So really haven’t gotten to that yet. Okay, so right now, to be honest with the military, if you can’t put it on a plane or put on a it, soldier it and ship them to overseas is not the priority. So human performance is it? The thing is, humans are greater than hardware. That’s the soft truth. but honestly, it’s something that I think we need to continue to work on. And that falls on the human performance professionals to get buy in from leadership. So I made dashboards to show the leadership. the goal is to get it to them right. now, it’s. It’s not. I just can’t walk up to a, to a geo’s office and say, hey, here, look at my. Look at this data. It’s really important. it’s. It’s harder than that. So, yeah. So right now, from a leadership stand, the way I, the way I want to use it is showing them, hey, about. And I think. I think I could say this about, I would say in terms of general population and military, it’s about 30% of, the population gets under 6 hours of sleep, which. Anything under 7 hours considered sleep deprivation. Yeah, I know. People were like, whoa, that’s crazy. Like 7 hours. Yeah. Anything under 7 hours is your. Your, especially if you’re working out hard and, you really push body, whether it be, you know, being a medical student and being in residency and, like, working a ton and, like, being. Being under a huge amount of stress. Like, if you’re not getting 7 hours of sleep, you’re most likely not gonna be able to retain information. You’re not gonna have emotional control. you’re not going to see the gains of a gym that you want to see. you might, but you’re also, like, draining your body battery, so it’s just going to keep knocking yourself down the rabbit hole. Yeah. So, sorry for the tangent, but that’s just,

Dr. Chris Myers: No, that’s great.

Jacob Behara: I think it’s important for m people to understand.

Dr. Chris Myers: Well, and I’m glad that you mentioned that, because on a previous podcast, we had strength coach, Casa, telegatus. He said the same exact thing. So it’s great to hear from a strength coach and from a data. Data scientists talk about the same exact thing in almost the same exact words. And I know you two don’t know each other, so that, that’s what makes it even more spectacular. So that’s a really great point.

What is your process on visualizing the data for the client

and then one of the other things that you mentioned so you could collect all the data, it could be meaningful. We’ll talk about how you choose the data that you collect here in a minute. that. Because that’s a big question I want to get to. But how. What is your. What is your process on visualizing the data for the client? Right. Because you have to make it meaningful that they understand. So if you could. I mean, if you could speak to that. How did. What. What’s your process on doing that? And what are some of your lessons learned on, the visualization aspects of data?

Jacob Behara: So, I mean, I try to keep it really, really simple because you’re presenting to, you know, lead, high level leadership, or even lower level leadership, and just, lower level soldiers. Like, it needs to be simple, that they can understand it. Like, if you’re. If you’re going to do some type of complex visualization, that, they’re not going to understand that you’re kind of wasting your time. So really it’s just showing change over time averages, standard deviation. you know, I mix it bell curves, just to show, like, so they can see, like, kind of where they’re falling in the pop, in the, in the population.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay.

Jacob Behara: Pie charts, like, just simple stuff to say, hey, like, I think the biggest thing that we made, biggest thing that I made was just up just a pie chart saying, hey, like, 30% of the population gets under 6 hours of sleep. So I think that was. And that was like an eye opener for leadership, was like, oh, God. Yeah, they see that. They see the 70% are getting above 6 hours, but 30%, let’s say if we have. I’m, not saying we can extrapolate this all over the DoD. Like, it’s different everywhere, but if we do extrapolate it over the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that we have, you know, that’s a huge amount. It is, yeah.

Dr. Chris Myers: So, I mean, it’s all about combat regen. Yeah. Regeneration and that mission readiness if. Yeah, so that’s a third of your mission. That’s the third of your available forces. So, yeah, that’s good. I mean. So the kiss principle, I love it.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, that’s. Yeah, because I’ve seen some of these, platforms out there. There’s some really good data platforms out besides Matlab, which if you’re a MD PhD, you’ll hear that. there’s one that I’ve worked with called teamworks, smarter base. they’re bought over, and it’s really good at presenting data, but you could really get complex. And I remember the one that I built, we were collecting CGM, data with, oura ring data, overlaying it, really trying to show over a 24 hours period really kind of show these changes over time. It was good, but it was too complex because you’re talking a 24 hours period with, you know, with the super, sapiens, CGM. It was given minute data, so it was getting really complex. We had to break it down into four hour chunks. Yeah. but you could do a lot with it. So, you know, and we kind of, we’ve kind of been talking about it. It, with bio wearables, you can pretty much collect almost everything. And let’s take the, the clinical portion out of it. Right. Because there’s that clinical talk versus the human performance field where it has to be very, you know, you have to be with a very specific deviation for, be, for clinical grade, little things like that. So we’re just going, not going to have the head conversation because I think that’s another podcast in itself. It’s really great to talk about.

How do you determine what metrics to collect when collecting sleep data

But how, what is your process to determine the metrics to collect? Because I think that’s probably the basic question that we all miss, and it’s kind of, yes, same question I had, same discussion I had with, some leadership yesterday. So I want to get your thoughts on that, especially someone who deals with data day in and day out.

Jacob Behara: Yeah, no, absolutely. yeah, that’s, that’s something that’s very important. so the first thing I look at is what you said. You talk to leadership about it, you know, and one, talking to leadership and also talking to subject matter experts. So I don’t determine what I’m collecting. I talk first because, yeah, I’m, you could say I’m type maybe a, I’m not an expert in strength and conditioning, but I was a strength coach, dietetics. So I can speak to most of the data, but when it comes to like psychological data, when it comes to like family programs data, when it talks to m spiritual data, like, I am not an expert in that, so I need to go. And even with strength conditioning or nutrition, I’m going to go to the expert and say, hey, what do you want to see? Because if I make it myself and like, hey, I think this is cool, they could be like, yeah, I don’t care about that. Doesn’t make sense.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay.

Jacob Behara: So I really, I try to lean on the subject matter experts. I try to take my background to understand their, understand their language, but I try not to interject unless it’s something that I’m an, I’m an expert in. So when it comes to sleep, like, that’s what I like, that’s something I’m really passionate about and really trying to learn. When, it comes to nutrition and psychology and stuff like that, like, I’m going right to the experts. What do you want to talk about?

Dr. Chris Myers: Can you explain to me?

Jacob Behara: Can you give me the context of what’s going on so I understand it and then I can apply it a little bit better. But that’s kind of what I do. What I do first. The next is finding if the data is actionable, scalable, repeatable. So shout out to Lyle Danley, who’s one of the data scientists. if you know that is, I told shout out because he posted that the other day and I thought that was really good.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, I think I saw the same thing. Yeah, I love that saying.

Jacob Behara: Yeah, yeah, it was really good. So he might probably get it from somebody else, but shout out to Lyle, it doesn’t meet those requirements that we got to find out what does. so the first thing is why are you collecting the data in the first place? What are you going to do with it? You need to work backwards from the end and then you can figure out what you need in the beginning. But if you’re just starting out, oh, I think it would be cool to collect sleep data. That’s not a good reason to collect sleep data. Yeah, you did a questionnaire with your, with your force and you’re like, and you say like, hey, are ah, you sleeping? What’s your, what’s your efficiency? Like, like a Pittsburgh sleep quality industry or something like that. And you find out you think there is an issue, then I would say get the objective information first. But I really like this, scalable as well. So I wrote like we talked about sleep wearables. I really like, I think it’s easy to scale that to the population. And it’s repeatable because it’s a passive way to collect information, really. They’re just wearing it at night. They can wear it in the day if they want, but just wearing a night, they don’t have to do anything. They don’t fill out a questionnaire, they don’t have to like, yep. I don’t know if you know what a megawave is, but a megawave is like, yep, you don’t have to like lay on the ground for five minutes and get, get this in your heart rate and your heart rate variability and stuff like that. it’s just passive, you just wear it. And so I really like wearable technology, whether that be like heart rate monitor or something. Like the person doesn’t have to do extra. so that’s kind of like my process. and then like, yeah, that’s probably what the main things I look at. and if we can do those things then we need to find either a better piece of technology or another set that we can.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay, yeah, that’s a lot there, but I really, I love the fact that you said actionable, scalable, repeatable. Yeah. And I. That those are key things that I. Ah, there’s different terms. Yeah, I have similar, but that is. That’s awesome. I’m glad you pointed that out. And I want our audience to kind of take that to heart is because if you can measure it right, you have to be able to repeat it. It’s just basic science. It’s the, if you go back to your, your scientific process that, collecting data, you’re pretty much doing many experimentation. And so that kind of goes back to what you’re saying that the backwards process is. Okay, why are you measuring? You’re trying to answer a research question.

Jacob Behara: Yep.

Dr. Chris Myers: And that’s really what it is. And in our, in our case, with the tactical populations, it’s okay. Why, why does sleep stink? why aren’t our guys getting quality sleep? Why aren’t they getting enough vitamin D? Right. Little things like that. Is that you have your observation, you make a research question from, that observation, your hypothesis, and you use the bioware bullet to collect the data to make a, actual plan out of that. It’s the scientific process and I love how you’re implementing that.

Jacob Behara: Yeah, I do my best. sometimes with the military, we can’t do the scientific process, unfortunately. It’s more like, just do a control group and a group that doesn’t do anything and then we’ll see what happens. And like, it’s trying to. It’s trying to do the easiest way possible to get some. So.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah. Especially when you probably only have your hands on it for like ten minutes a day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Consistency is definitely the issue with our population. it’s great. So, you know, with that. Right.

Where would you like to see data analytics go in the future

where would you like to, you know, if you had everything in the world and you could, you had a blank canvas, where would you like to see data analytics go?

Jacob Behara: Well, that’s a good question. I think it’s already. I think it’s already there. Do I understand it all yet? No, I don’t think any of us do, really. I mean, I think there’s some amazing people out there that. Doing some crazy, you know, like we talked about making algorithms do machine learning, you know, working on, advanced AI to, you know, predict outcomes. Yeah, that’s where, that’s where it’s going and that’s where human performance needs to go, too. So the problem I see with that in the human performance setting is everybody uses something different. So whether that be a force plate, which would be something you could do. You do jumps on, if you’re not familiar with it, do jumps on. Or you do like, isometric poles or other things, like they’re using different technologies, so it’s giving different metrics. So, especially working, with the army, it’s like, do we. We all need to get on the same page somehow, but everybody wants to do their own thing, because everybody thinks that everybody either has a relationship with this. With this company, or, they have, ah. Or they know about it, or they don’t know about the other one. And so it’s just like, there needs to be somebody in leadership that gets us all on the same page. so we can see. So we can one correlate or not correlate, but we can see, hey, it’s this group matching it up to this group. Like, why is this group, Yeah, why is this, unit different than this other unit? You know, they’re using different metrics. You’re using different wearables. Like, let’s say they’re using one juice, you use an or on the other one using WHOOP. Like, yeah, those are different. I mean, yeah, they give you sleep, but, like, the accuracy of one is, no offense, but greater than the other. I’m not gonna say which one, but, yeah, there’s one of them is that, through the research. So, the other way. Now, I think the other one. I think there’s one that that’s. I think technology can improve. And, like, I try to be a naysayer because I like technology might not be there yet, especially risk based technology. just because for the. The sensors to penetrate all the bones and muscle and. And attendance in your. In your wrist, I, think the finger is better, personally.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yep.

Jacob Behara: But I think that, with the military, especially, like, having a ring, you can’t use a ring when you’re. When you’re in the, actually deployed, because you don’t want to get degloved, which means lose a finger. so I think risk based technology is the way. The future just hasn’t. It’s just not there yet, in terms of accuracy. So,

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, no, that’s great.

Do the research on the technology, and that’s key. That’s very key

So, honestly, I’m taking two things out of that, and the first big one, and I hope everyone caught that you said, do the research on the technology, and that’s key. Is you have to get through all the hoopla, and really see the accuracy of the bio wearable. So, like, for example, if you go into peer reviewed research versus aura versus WHOOP, aura has more peer reviewed data confirming its algorithms, whereas WHOOP does not. And that. That’s really interesting. Right. And it’s similar to other products as well. Like, you know, the dexcom CGM M versus the Abbott CGM, you know, at, you know, the accuracies and, you know, interstitial versus, you know, sweat based, analyte sensors, little things like that. So once you decide on the metric and the bio, you know, the metric you want to measure, do the research on the bio wearable that collects that metric. That. That’s very key. get past the hoopla, get past the. The, the relationships. Get past the, you know, the commercialization and get down to the nitty gritty. And. And so. And I love the fact that you brought that up, and that’s a key point. You know, that’s another golden nugget right there. So thank you for sharing that.

Jacob Behara: Yeah. So, my little controversial, especially people that, are in the, are in the crossfit community, because I know, I know, I know it’s very popular. but some things, they, I think it can be improved. That’s all.

Dr. Chris Myers: Agreed. Yeah. Well, part of it, too, is the, least in that aspect. That’s the, commercialization getting into the middle of it.

Jacob Behara: Yeah. They do a job commercializing their product. They’re really cool.

Dr. Chris Myers: It is, yeah. yeah. So it’s, you know. Yeah, I’ve had the same conversation with our guys, you know, going through with, you know, when we were deciding to bring aura versus WHOOP in.

Dr. Chris Myers: it’s the same thing, too, is, we’ve had ketone, companies come in and try to give us exogenous ketones, and that’s a whole different subject to it for a different day. but you got to do your research. Right. And that’s why, you know, we developed a relationship with Delta G is because that if you got to look at the. Against the research, there’s over 20 years of research on that molecule that shows the performance benefits. Again, you know, it’s in controlled settings, but you got to do the research and get through all the hoopla.

Jacob Behara: So.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, which is really cool. Yeah.

Take us through your process for analyzing data

So, I mean, I. We could just talk on and on about data. It’s just like, I love the insights that you go into it. so what are some of the steps that you personally do when you look at data? let’s say it’s a personal client or even a group. Take us through your process, just your personal process. How do you look at it? How do you interpret it? what type of methodologies do you use? Little things like that.

Jacob Behara: so if I’m working with the individual, which I don’t really do that, I’m not going to say what level I’m at, but I’m not just at one unit, m so it’s more of a bigger picture aspect for the individuals. But if I do, I do talk to people about sleep, and their data. Sometimes they’ll come by my office, to that I don’t step on the toes of the subject matter experts. I’ll just talk to you about the sleep metrics I’m not going into. Yeah, I just got to be careful with what, especially with my job. So if they come to me outside of work, or if I had somebody come to me outside of work that I didn’t work with, I would, I would definitely, like, give them my, my two cent on that. But, so I’m really looking at, hey, what are the trends of the data? Like, I think a lot of people get, get caught up in the acute, data. Like, one day. It’s just not, it’s not enough to make any type of decision on whether that be, you know, your heart rate one day or your sleep one day, or your jump on the force play one day. or you’re, you know, you talked about, sweat, like measuring sweat, or, Yeah, you know, anything. Like, it’s really just anything one day. One day does not tell you anything. It’s just one. So, looking at trends over time, whether it be weeks, months, years, that’s how I use my, my sleep data in particular. Like, I don’t look at my data every day, okay? I don’t get good sleep, and I still work out, and I still, if I see it and it’s like, you’re not ready to train, then in the back of my mind, I’m gonna be like, ah, I’m m not ready. I’m not gonna, you know, it. It’s really how I feel first. So that’s what I tell most people. Kind of, okay, kind of go back a little bit. So what I would tell most people is how you feel is the most important thing. having a blend of the, of the subjective and objective information is very important. So then once we have that then I’m really, I’m gonna look at a more practical set. Standpoint would be like, you know, what changes can you make from data. So the first thing I always tell people is like behavioral changes are the most important you can do, you know. So a lot of people want the magic pill where it’s like just tell me what, just tell me what pill I need to take and I want to be better. that can work for a short period and depending on your condition I’m sure it can help people. But in order so we don’t get there in the first place, behavioral modifications, whether that be practicing different sleep hygiene or stimulus control or going to a CBTI expert that can practice sleep restriction based on what the person needs and then maybe get into nutritional aspects of what can improve, that data that we’re looking at. And then if we’re looking at, you know, strength conditioning data, whether that be a horse or you know, velocity based training or whatever, like what can the strength coaches do to improve that? and what can they like, how can they change the programming to, to benefit that?

Dr. Chris Myers: Excellent. I mean it, Keith. Trends, I love it. I mean because. Yeah, yeah. Trends and, yeah. And then also look at the subjective and objective data. Yeah. I mean I personally, yeah, I’m a, or a guy, mindset. I had the best sleep score I had in weeks. Yeah, they gave me up to a 91 and I’m like, okay, this is great. I’m going to do a ten k run today. But man, I’m not fully feeling it. And getting up to 5 miles tempo, pace, I’m like, all right, we’re about to break this last mile up. And it was just, yeah, you’re right. It’s like how you feel is the most important aspect and, and I think that’s key.

Listening to patients is key to developing a good relationship with your clients

And that kind of goes back into a soft goal that we’ve kind of discussed in our previous podcast as well is listening to the patients. Right. You know, we get, you know, as professionals, we’re looking at the folder like, okay, we got, all right, you’ve got this, but you don’t even, you didn’t really hear what the patient had to say. And so that’s, that’s really key. and I love the fact that you bring that to the table when you talk to your clients or groups as well.

Jacob Behara: Yeah. I mean, it’s like you just said, like, you know, listening to the client, listen to the, to the patient or the client, you know, the developing that relationship is the most important. And sometimes like, I’m sure like when I go to the doctor’s office, the doctor is either like really engaging or they’re not because they have already so many things on their plate, they’re looking. So I would say if you can just like try to be present in the moment and focus on who you’re seeing, and then what their issues are, like you said, like having the conversation is going to be huge. because I would suspect a lot of people that are trying to be doctors are doing it for the best reasons. But some people are maybe, thinking of more of the bottom line then. so I would hopefully most, people that work in any profession are doing it for the right reasons and not just staff. As many people as possible, making as much money as possible.

Dr. Chris Myers: True, very true.

Sleep hygiene is basically anything that can, can improve sleep

So kind of winding down here. you mentioned sleep hygiene. You and I know what sleep hygiene is. It’s a, it’s a kind of a big term that’s being used in the tactical populations right now. Can you, can you define that and give some examples of what sleep hygiene is?

Jacob Behara: Yes. The sleep hygiene to me is basically anything that can, can improve sleep. and I think people get things, some things, things kind of mixed up a little bit. so I like to talk about, sleep hygiene differently than I do. Stimulus control. So stimulus control is a cognitive behavioral therapy type, of process, before you go to bed. So I want to get into that first because I think that’s where you get the biggest thing. So stimulus control, the most thing you can possibly the best thing you can do every day is waking up at the same time every morning.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay.

Jacob Behara: And the reason we do that is because anybody familiar with ATP or a product of ATP adenosine is going to be. We build that up during the day. That’s our sleep pressure chemical. So let’s say we wake up the same time every day at 07:00 a.m. We start building up that sleep pressure. And then it builds up to it, until we’re tired enough, then we go to bed and then we, and then we release it. It’s like you think a flood get floodgates opening. We’re releasing that adenosine and then when, then by the time that finishes we’re waking up, we’re ready to go. But change your schedules. Like, let’s say we sleep until nine or ten on the weekends. That adenosine, they’re missing out on 3 hours of that adenosine buildup. So the next night. So it depends on, you know, if they drank before or whatever, they might still be tired. But yeah, the most important thing you can do, and I’m sure a lot of sleep scientists and sleep experts would agree with me, would be waking up the same time every day, going to bed only when you’re sleepy. don’t try to force yourself to go to bed. Like you’re just going to cause undue stress. use the bedroom for only sleep and sex. So no video games, no tvs. If you’re going to read a book, try to read something either that’s not going to stimulate you or, a lot of people say read manuals or I read fiction before I go to bed. And sometimes maybe it gets pretty exciting, but, most of the time I’m only reading like a couple pages. So, and then another thing would be like really try to, you know, coordinate your naps where you’re not going to affect your sleep. So 15 to 30 minutes naps are okay, but, anything, anything over that you’re going to, you’re going to lose some of that identity because you’re asleep and so you’re not going to be as tired when it comes to bed. You haven’t built up enough. So be really careful about your naps. And somebody that’s just starting this, it’s going to be really difficult at first. You’re going to be a little tired because you’re trying to, you’re trying to get yourself in sync, but that is going to be the most important thing you can do. And then the second thing when we talk about, we talk about sleep hygiene, that’s just going to be, some more simple things. So that can be anything from like blackout curtains to, you know, white noise machines to, you know, what you eat prior to bed. Like, are you meditating before bed? Stuff like that. Like, it can be a million different things. your temperature, you know, 60, 65 to 68 degrees is, I think there’s maybe minus a couple degrees depending on, people’s opinions and some of the research, but would, be optimal temperature for bed. So I know a lot of maybe, maybe a lot of, husbands, like since guys are generally sleep a little harder than women do your wife into, hey, like let’s turn it down because it’s optimal for sleep, you know. so that, that might be a difficult conversation to have, but those are, the difference is, like, and they’re there, most of them are behavioral changes. Now, I did talk about nutrition, like, maybe not yeah. Eat a bunch of fat before bed or have a big meal because your body’s saying and not really get into that, into that good parasympathetic, parasympathetic state where you can actually fall asleep and actually give you that restorative sleep. So those are, those are kind of the differences. but I would say the stimulus control would be the biggest thing for your buck. And you can just google that. There’s a, it’s basically four to five things that you can.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yep.

Jacob Behara: They’re hammer home. that’s really important. Oh yeah. And one more thing with the semester control, you know, if you have a partner, if you have somebody sleeping in bed with you, no arguments in the bedroom. All right, so the bedrooms, the bedrooms, your happy place. Like I said, sleep and sex only. So arguments should be done outside, whether it be the living room or another bedroom or something that you can have the conversation but really try to work on. No stimulus, that’s going to make you anxious or angry in the bedroom. That’s going to help you a lot. Excellent. Yeah, well that’s, that’ll be my answer.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, no, that’s perfect. I mean that’s spot on. It’s that’s exactly what we talk about, with my guys too, when we do the one on ones, where we look at the sleep data too is okay, how do you go to bed? What are your patterns, what are your behaviors? the favorite is the phone and eating literally right before bed, because you definitely with tactical populations nutrition is less, less than optimal. And trying, it’s usually the breakfast and then dinner right before bed, because they’re out in the field or doing stuff throughout the day. And try, you know, if you could try to get that within, if you could eat like you said, not a lot of fats and such, you know, definitely not a lot of carbs either. Within 90, before that 90 minutes window before going to bed, you’re really good because again it comes down to glucose stabilization. that’s a big one. So that’s powerful stuff. I’m glad you brought that up. And yeah that’s, and that’s something that our audience should be. Couldn’t actually try at home to help optimize their sleep. And so yeah, and honestly within this conversation it’s been great. You give him some great tenants, but you brought to the table you’ve been able to talk about two different domains of human performance at one time and how. And you start showing how you’re able to link them over, because recovery is a important, data is another, and you’re, in my opinion, you’re able to show how you’re able to cross those over to help optimize an important section of performance optimization for, your personnel. So thank you for sharing those insights.

Jacob Behara: Yeah, you’re welcome.

There’s so much more we can unpack from this 40 minutes conversation

Yeah, I love talking about it. So, sleep is the owner of somebody, something I really like to learn about and talk about.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, I mean, in the beginning you talked about TBis. that’s something that’s dear near to me. we’ll, we’ll talk that at a later day. I want to have you back because there’s so much more we can unpack is than just out of this 40 minutes conversation. but if you’d like to come back, I would love to have you. yeah, we’ll talk about that a little bit more because I know there’s some more research coming out of, you know, out of fort benning right now and definitely IHMC as well, and kind of like to kind of talk that a little bit, geek out a little bit more on TBI research, but yeah, so trying to recap on some of the stuff that you covered today. So you talked about how you use data to kind of, process decision, making. But before you got into that, kind of key things you hit on is what do you, what metrics are you using to answer what question? Right, that’s the big one. You talked about that did the research on the bio wearable, on the metric, that you want to collect, and then really looking into that metric that is actionable, repeatable and scalable. and so if you guys, if our audience takes anything from all this, take those five points, the home, and try and start looking at how you start using data just with your own, with your own studies and when you start talking to your clients, your patients on the day in and day out basis.

This is directed towards residents and up and coming medical students

so with that, Jacob, I mean, there’s a lot here I want to have you back before, you go. Do you have any last minute advice for our audience out there?

Jacob Behara: Yeah, I would say since this is directed towards residents and, up and coming medical students, take care of yourself. You should be getting sleep, you should be taking care of your body. You should be doing, you should be eating, you should be sleeping, you should be exercising. personally, I would trust a doctor way more if they’re physically fit than somebody that’s not. so I think, and I also think that I like, I’ve had friends that are medical students and that have become doctors, and they have stressed themselves out so much that, yeah, now they’re making awesome money, but their quality of life’s not great because they didn’t take care of themselves. So in order for you, just, like, working with, you know, whether it be special forces or big army, like, you will have a longer career and a more satisfied life if you take care of yourself physically and emotionally and, you know, mentally. So I think that’s something I would, I would definitely drive home, you know, that’s very, very important.

Dr. Chris Myers: Excellent. That is great stuff to hear. So with that being said, that that’s this episode of WCW. if you have any questions or anything out there, feel free to reach out to me. Chris, if I can’t answer it, I will definitely get the, I’ll get the question off the data, the question off to Jacob, and we’ll kind of get that answered for you. So, Jacob, thank you so much for your time, and I hope to see you again soon. All right, cheers.