Transform Your Health with Dr. David Hall

Doctor David Hall talks about human performance optimization for young medical professionals

Dr. Chris Myers: The views expressed by myself and the guests of this podcast do not reflect the official policy or position of the US Air Force, Department of Defense, or the us government. Welcome to white coat warriors. I’m your host, Doctor Chris Myers. And on this podcast, we talk about human performance optimization and training paradigms for you, the young medical professionals, and how you can use it in your own professional practices to help yourselves and your clients. Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of White Goat warriors. Here today we have Doctor David hall. before we get into it, let’s, if you like what we’re doing here, give us a like five star review. Tickle that bell. No matter what platform you’re at, just, you know, give us a, like, help us move along and send us any suggestions you may have, what you like to see in the future. So, welcome to the show, Doctor Hall.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, thank you, man. I really appreciate it. It’s nice to meet you. Thanks for having me. I’m really excited to, be a guest here today. Thank you.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, I know, me too. So, I mean, so in my research with you researching, what? Your background, everything. So I understand. I know you’re a physician. you’re an, you’re an orthopedic surgeon, correct?

Dr. David Hall: No, I get accused of that a lot. I’m a urologist.

Dr. Chris Myers: Oh, okay. You’re one of those guys.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, yeah. Urologist. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Chris Myers: So you run that and you run your own company, your own health performance company called, get fit and fine, which works on human performance principles for, you know, for very busy populations and stuff. And a lot of that ties in directly with, kind of our young medical professionals and even, you know, senior, medical students, but even young and senior residents as well. I imagine we’ll probably have one or two, attendings that would get, learned some of this stuff as well, hopefully. So this is great.

You’re a board certified urologist who specializes in treating low testosterone conditions

so before we get into all this, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and kind of what you do on a daily basis.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, so, yeah, I’m a board certified urologist. I’ve been in practice almost twelve years. It’ll be twelve years this summer.

Dr. Chris Myers: Excellent.

Dr. David Hall: And, absolutely loved urology. Fell in love with it in med school, thankfully. I met some urologists in the gym, of all places, who introduced me to urology. I had no clue what it was and after trying a lot of other specialties, I just, I fell in love with urology. It was just fascinating to me. And so ive been doing that for twelve years, and I spent a lot of my time in the mens health space. So treating a lot of conditions like low testosterone and erectile dysfunction. And so ive always loved fitness and nutrition and human optimization concepts, personally. And I started to kind of realize that these patients of mine also needed those principles as well. And that’s where fit and fine was kind of created out of, was a desire to not only offer these guys treatment for their low testosterone, but also be able to say, hey, you also need to do this and this around their fitness and their nutrition and their sleep and their stress, as those things are often just as important as the medical aspects of the low t treatment, for example. Yeah, but that’s, kind of what I spend most of my time doing, you know, full time urologist and also running the fit and fine companies. It’s kind of busy, but very enjoyable.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, excellent.

Low t is a subject every medical professional will get touched upon somewhere

Well, you know what, you hit on one of those touchy subjects, especially in what I do on a daily basis as a, an integrated physiologist with the air Force, and, and I’m always getting hit up about low tips. Yeah. For the low testosterone. Low t. So talk, if you don’t mind, let’s take a few minutes to kind of talk on this, because this is definitely something, this is a subject every medical professional will get touched upon somewhere in their career, and there’s a lot of fallacies involved with it. so can you talk to us through maybe a really quick background, the medical diagnoses and common ailments that cause low t, that can be treated, you know, without, you know, you know, better living through chemistry.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, I mean, I. I think it’s kind of evolved over the course of my training. Even I remember in residency, it was pretty much a, ah, strict cutoff when you look at labs and what the lab values show. Right. And so, yeah, there really wasn’t, at least in my training, a concept around, well, a 30 year old guy shouldn’t be expected to have the same normal level as an 80 year old guy, but that’s kind of what the lab data suggested at the time. And so we. I think now I’ve gotten better at really looking at not only symptoms and really diving into are the symptoms from a testosterone deficiency, but also looking at the guy’s age. Right. So knowing a 30 year old should have a very different testosterone level as a guy that’s 50 or 60 or 70, and using those age specific ranges have really, I think, revolutionized the treatment. It’s still, like you said, kind of controversial. I think even in the urology community, you know, the AUA, the American Urology association, has a cutoff that they use in their guidelines. But at the very bottom, there is an asterisk saying, hey, by the way, this may not apply in every scenario. And I think that’s where the caveat really is important. And that, you know, you can’t look at a guy who’s 30 and has a testosterone of 350, who’s very symptomatic and say he’s normal just because the lab range is technically in the normal range. So I think that’s really important. And so I see a lot of guys who are told repeatedly that they have a normal testosterone, but for their age, it’s extremely under where they should be. And that’s where you can start to then work that up and dive into things a little bit more. And works are hopefully rectifying that or treating that.

In medical training, diet, stress and sleep are often discussed

but you’d asked about conditions, and I think, just generically speaking, especially in the medical community, diet, exercise, sleep, all of those generic things, they’re not even medical conditions, but lack of sleep, trifecta, horrible for testosterone. Yeah, it’s a trifecta. Stress, horrible for testosterone. And then a, diet. Right. Sugar. Let’s just take sugar, for example. Sugar. I mean, there’s plenty of studies, you probably know these, where a, decent amount of sugar intake can really drop your levels to castrate levels for hours. So if you think about a guy who has a donut and a Pepsi for breakfast, I mean, he may be castrate for the most of the morning. Right. So these concepts really aren’t mainstream, but they’re super important. So I think, first and foremost is trying to optimize some of those things in addition to then obviously working up other potential medical conditions. but, you know, obviously in medical training, diet, stress and sleep is one of those things that’s, at least where I come from, wasn’t talked about.

Dr. Chris Myers: Still isn’t. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s, I wasn’t too far ahead of you. Some of the courses I had to take, even though I’m not an MD, a lot of the course we had to work with are, you know, in the medical school, you know, you know, with going through some of those courses, they would spend a day, just one day, that would cover nutrition and, human and exercise physiology.

Dr. David Hall: Right.

Dr. Chris Myers: You know, and so it. I know a lot of the courses are getting better at it, but, yeah, it’s. It’s interesting that you talk about that trifecta, which we’ve actually touched upon on this, for this season several times inadvertently. So it’s really neat how it keeps rearing its head and it’s the nexus of so many pathologies. and starting off, you know, with, with our medical professionals, it’s such a young career, they’re already exposed to it much earlier on than they should be. And the one, one of them that always keeps coming up asleep, so.

This is the fifth episode in a row that we’ve talked about sleep

And I think this is probably the fifth episode in a row now that we’ve talked about sleep at some point, without even planning about talking about. And I hope that drives home the point on the, importance of sleep when it comes to just anything you do. how do you, you know, you’re a very busy gentleman right now. Again, fully, you’re a practicing position.

Dr. David Hall: Ah.

Dr. Chris Myers: And you run your own company. When do you find time to sleep?

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, well it’s, I mean, you have to be strategic, right. And so I think, where I come from, not even just my training, but my family background, sleep was never really seen as much value. Right. I think naps were seen as maybe a sign of weakness. I remember in residency, right, being told, hey, your post call, just suck it up, you know, you don’t need a nap, just keep going. Why would you sleep, right. You know, you just stay up. So there was definitely a framework around seeing sleep as not really golden, when it actually truly is golden. but for me, I mean, I think there’s several things, and I’ve gotten better in the last, maybe five to seven years before that. I’ll admit I was pretty bad about it too. I would sacrifice sleep. I think as we get busy, it’s one of the first things to go. It’s easy to just say, I’ll stay up later, get up earlier. Right. That’s the easy part of your schedule to adjust. But, it’s probably the worst part to adjust. But, I think for me, you know, just as far as, ensuring I sleep, you know, an adequate number of hours and I try to, no less than seven. I honestly feel better at eight a night. But, you know, I think maintaining a routine schedule is pretty important. So I really go to bed the same time every night, wake up the same time every morning. The exception being I am in the medical profession, so if I’m on call, that obviously gets interrupted. but I really plan for that. If I’m on call, I try to go in a little earlier or sleep in a little later and make up for that in some capacity there. I think just day in, day out, the more I think fully you live your life. If I give it my all, not only in my profession, but with my family and the gym, if I’m very full in my day to day, I’m ready for bed, my body’s ready to go to bed. I just realized that plan for it and take advantage of that. and some things I’ve done that have really helped me in the last five years is being strategic around, you hear a lot of these things about no blue light, no screens. yeah. Like, sleep hygiene is really important. And I think in my profession, I would check emails right before bed, which, why would I do that? Right. And inadvertently I would get a very stressful email, maybe from a partner, maybe from, a patient, maybe a staff member, and then I would be amped up, I would be thinking about it, it would, you know, delay my sleep. And so I cut that off hours before bed. So I don’t have this, amped up, stressed up scenario before bed. You know, I have more of a calming routine rather than the stressful routine.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah.

Dr. David Hall: So this has been important and I think honestly, like, I’ve really changed the way I eat and drink in the evenings. And interesting water. Right. So I really cut off what I eat pretty, early. Like, I usually don’t eat anything after seven. I go to bed around ten.

Dr. Chris Myers: Interesting.

Dr. David Hall: So at this time, for me, that really helps without, you having to process a lot overnight. and then obviously as you get older, I see a lot of patients with enlarged prostates, they’re drinking a lot of fluids in the evening. So the more you drink in the evening, you’re invariably going to be getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. So if you can avoid that, especially older, it’s going to be very helpful. But even if you’re not old and you drink a lot of fluids right before bed, I mean, that’s just not scenario. So, you know, that’s been kind of helpful. But, you know, I think just being strategic, once you identify how important sleep is and then just building your whole day around, making sure you get the appropriate amount of sleep, I think that’s the key. I think first you just got to realize it’s important.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah. So, yeah, very important.

Food timing before bed can help improve sleep, according to research

And it’s interesting that you talk on the nutrient, on, food timing before bed. that’s another aspect that’s come up over a couple of episodes already where, yeah, so you know, a couple episodes ago we had, doctor Dave Lippmann on here. and he has background with cgms where we talked about glucose stability. That seems to help sleep. And with the advent of bio wearables, it really showed. Okay, if you don’t have that glucose spike within an hour and a half to 2 hours of bed, you tend to have better stability, which correlated to better sleep. It’s interesting that you mentioned that already, just by what? Just by trial and error. So that is, that’s really cool. see, kind of. See, other professionals are seeing the same work, you know, just without seeing the research, you’re already seeing it working out in the field.

Dr. David Hall: That is really interesting. Go to experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do a lot better with cutting my food off at seven.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, yeah. I’m always hungry, so I’m always eating. being a triathlete. yeah, so, yeah, well, speaking about drinking. Yeah, and I’ve never, I’ve never come across that where, you know, and this may be where the ageisms come in. So you mentioned, you know, especially for older men, drinking water, you should try to stay away from drinking too much liquids in the evening. and enlarging the prostate. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because honestly, I’ve never come across that before. And some of our listeners may have kind of similar question.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, yeah. Obviously the med m students, residents, new attendees, they may not have to worry about it, but, you know, even, even docs in their forties can start to see problems with an enlarged prostate. Fifties for sure. So, yeah, you know, the prostate enlarges, you may not empty your bladder really well. So if you’re going to be, you know, retaining some fluid there, and then you’re drinking a lot of fluid before bedtime, one of the common symptoms is you just get up at night to urinate. So by limiting the amount of fluids you drink at night, it can just decrease the amount you’re going to have to process during those first few hours of sleep and therefore make it less likely you’re going to have to get up one, two, three times in the middle of the night. with that said, there’s a lot of other medical conditions that guys can get. Sleep apnea, for example, is one of those that notoriously gives you a symptom of getting up at night to urinate.

Dr. Chris Myers: Wow.

Dr. David Hall: A lot of guys think it’s their prostate when in fact it’s sleep apnea. So, yeah, you know, they’re getting up at night can be from a lot of things, but prostate’s a common one.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, yeah. Interesting. You said that with the asleep. Damn. I’ve seen that quite a bit with, tactical professionals.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Chris Myers: So really cool. As I learned, I always learned something on these talks as well, so I. Good. Hopefully someone gets out of this as well.

Get Fit and Fine was founded to help busy professionals lose weight and muscle

So, you know, talk to us a little bit, about, your company, get fit and fine, you know, what’s your model, and what, you know, how do you tailor it to your, professionals?

Dr. David Hall: Yeah. So, like I said, it was kind of born out of me seeing the need, personally, but also professionally, of my patients. Specifically, especially like low t patients, for example, who found themselves with low testosterone. They were overweight, they were busy, stressed, not sleeping. They had all these things going on, and all I could really address was giving them testosterone replacement. They needed that, but they also needed much more. And personally, I hired my own trainer about five years ago and saw amazing results working with him. I saw the importance of putting everything together. if you have some medical problems, optimizing those. If you have issues with stress, sleep, optimizing those. But then the diet, the nutrition, having a training program. Right. Not just going to work out, but actually like training for something specific that’s measurable and objective and ensures you’re making progress. I mean, that’s like the secret sauce, I think. And so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I created fit and fine as kind of a company, a platform to not only educate guys, especially busy professionals, doctors, for example, but, also provide the tools and the resources to do that. A lot of guys come to me and they kind of know what to do, they just don’t know how to do it. They know they need to lift, exercise, work out. They just don’t know what to do, how often to do it. And so structuring and programming those training regimens for them, helping them understand macros, for example, or the quality of their food, the types of food, how much they should be eating, or how little based on their goals. you know, those are kind of the main aspects. And so we just tailor things. Most guys come to us needing to lose weight and add muscle. That’s obviously the most common complaint. Yeah. And so that’s usually involves, you know, cutting. So teaching them about, you know, limiting the number of calories and figuring out that exact number and then training. Right. I think a lot of guys either don’t train, at all or overtrain. So, like, there’s kind of a balance in like really ensuring they understand how to train for progress, not that stagnation or injury or, you know, going in a backwards motion, so to speak. and so a lot of that is also built around support and accountability. I think they, them knowing they have someone in their corner who knows how this works, who knows how he can put it all together and has seen success with not only himself but others, that gives them that confidence to follow the plan rather than just, you know, you read a blog, you read an article, you’re like, I don’t really know if that’s going to work. this stuff works. And so that’s kind of how we’re structured, but it’s really just the programming, the education, the support, the accountability, those are kind of the main, components to the fit and find programs.

A lot of guys come to us asking about testosterone and nutrition

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay, so in, within that education component, what are some of the key topics that you typically see, with your clientele?

Dr. David Hall: I mean, oddly enough, a lot of guys come to us asking about their testosterone, which my role of fit and fine, I don’t check that, but I encourage them to go get it checked with their local family doctor, for example, to at least get a screen test. But a lot of questions, revolve around, hey, how do I know if I have low testosterone? How do I get it checked? If I have low testosterone, what do I do? what can I do to naturally boost it? Those types of things. A lot of education is around that, but a lot of guys seem to not really understand, just what I take for granted as being more basic is what are the good protein sources I need? How much protein should I be eating? That’s honestly some of the biggest ones. Or they hear carbs are bad. Well, no, carbs are actually good. There’s bad carbs, there’s good carbs, and there’s too many carbs. A lot of it’s education around nutrition. Honestly, nutrition, low t is a big one. And then the training usually is more of just reorienting them around, over training. I think a lot of guys go in, go all in, they go aggressive, they do it for a couple months, they maybe get hurt, they don’t see progress, they get burned out, so to speak, and then they quit. So I think mapping out a more sustainable program is really a big part of the kind of initial, you know, I’d say few months aspect of the programs.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay, so, yeah, so like, pacing is right, you know, trying to, you know, modulate in that intensity, undulated throughout the training plan, throughout the weeks and recovery time. We hate recovery times. yeah, but that’s where the progress is made. yeah, it’s. That’s the true. I’m glad to see that you’ve seen. I’m glad to see you’re addressing those. That’s amazing. and that’s awesome. Good.

Dr. David Hall: I would say you mentioned the recovery time. I think that’s a real big piece for me. I think historically, residency, for example, I think I would take A deload week or a light week once every three or four months. Something insane, which in my twenties I could kind of do that. But I noticed as I got older that that just wasn’t sustainable. And so honestly, take a deload week every month. Like every three or four weeks, I take a little lighter week. And it’s just that, you know, undulating progress is better than this. You know, going too strong and then just, you know, blowing up, so to speak. So.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, and that’s. Yeah, and I’m That’s the hard part. When you buy a stock plan, it’s. They’re usually. Strength conditioning plans are usually built for 6810. Twelve weeks without any deloads in there. and yeah, it’s like you said, when you’re younger, you’re, you can do it and not everyone can do it, but you know, more, more often than not. But now as we move and moving closer to kind of the Julian calendar approach where, you know, every three weeks and then one week off, you know, it kind of helps with that improved recovery. Or at least of course the recovery. But it also helps with you know, with your just regular calendar and you’re planning your months and your weeks out.

Dr. David Hall: So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Chris Myers: It’s really important.

So what are some of the techniques that you teach for deload

So what are some of the techniques that you teach for deload? Ah, with your professionals?

Dr. David Hall: I mean, honestly, usually, we program them. So each week they’re at least initially, typically, let’s say week one through three, they’re slowly increasing the weight of each, you know, exercise they’re doing, but they’re dropping reps. And then usually that fourth week, let’s say week one through three is slowly progressing through that. Week four they’ll go back to basically the weight they were doing the first week.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay.

Dr. David Hall: But they’ll drop a whole set from each of those exercises.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah.

Dr. David Hall: And that’s kind of how I approach it. So I know you can, you can often go a lot lighter. There’s many different approaches. Yeah. So that, that honestly has worked for me really well. The last five years. I’ve loved that. And so it seems like, a lot of guys that it’s, it’s enough of a deload to get that kind of recuperation.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah.

Dr. David Hall: But it still is challenging enough. They don’t feel like they’re just not doing anything, I think. So, yeah, I like the balance there. That’s kind of how I approach it.

Dr. Chris Myers: It’s simple and it’s elegant. It hits the two goals, recovery. but you still feel like you’re doing something, so you don’t feel like a slog.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah. Yeah. So they still feel like you’re making progress.

Dr. Chris Myers: Excellent.

What were some of the mistakes you made early in your medical career

So, you know, within all this, you know, so this all seems to be kind of a, nexus of everything you’ve learned through your professional career. Now, let’s kind of take it back a little bit to, young medical student doctor hall. Young resident doctor hall. What were some of the, what were some of the early mistakes that you made? You did mention sleep at one point. what were some of the other, actions that may have kind of limited your professional performance, in your early part of your career?

Dr. David Hall: I mean, I think in residency, I mean, I’ll go back to the, the importance of the deloads and the rest and the recuperation. I actually ruptured my pec. I don’t know if you said you’ve been falling a little bit. So, in residency, I mean, I was going hard, going strong, lifting, heavy lifting, you know, five, six days a week, little rest. Obviously, as a resident, I wasn’t getting much sleep. I was probably stressed, not eating quite the way I probably should have. And, you know, month after month for month, I finally, I just, I ruptured my pec and it was a disaster. I had to have surgery and a long recovery. And, so that, that really woke me up to the fact that I wasn’t invincible. Right. I think a lot of us in our twenties, we think we’re invincible, especially, I think, in the medical field. Right? You’re just, you’re a gunner. You’re, you know, you’re just, you’re just going hard, going strong all the time and the surgery world, you’re kind of expected to do that. And so that was a huge mistake, just thinking my body could just keep going. and I think if I, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten a little more wise to know that, you know, you need the rest. You need to pace yourself. and that’s a physical example, but I think it goes with the entire professional, you know, aspects to a physician’s career, early training. I think sleep, too. I mean, I would, you, know, I would. A lot of call and residency. That was kind of expected. I think it’s gotten a little bit better over the years, but it’s still a lot. And I think I, you know, some residents would go home and sleep, and I’m like, you know, hey, or I have a day off. I’m not gonna miss this. I’m gonna stay up all day. And, you know, I think in hindsight, that was probably not a wise decision. Right. I should have probably slept more when I was able to. I think I mentioned earlier, I really thought naps were kind of a joke. Like, why would you do that? But, you know, napping is. Is really important. I mean, I think, you know, had I taken more naps throughout residency, I think that would have helped. you know, just, you know, endurance and mental state and probably my physical health, too. And, I think those were a lot of the biggest mistakes, is just thinking I was invincible. Not resting, not pacing, just going too hard, I think. Okay.

Dr. Chris Myers: cool. Yeah.

How did you deal with stress as a young, um, resident

And then within that, you know, so you mentioned this part in the beginning of our conversation, you mentioned stress a little bit, and that’s probably. And that’s the one thing we’ve not touched base on. So how did you. How did you deal with the stress? I was probably lifting.

Dr. Chris Myers: How did you deal with stress as a young, resident. Senior medical student?

Dr. David Hall: Yeah. So, interestingly enough, I thought, I love med school. I thought med school was, it was stressful, but it was nothing like residency. So for any med students, not to scare them that residency is going to be the worst part of their life. But for me, it was much different than med school. So med school, there was a lot of flexibility in my schedule. I still felt like I had, enough free time to do other things than just work all the time and take call the time. but once I hit residency, that was extremely stressful for me. Okay. I’d never seen like this. You know, I just was. I was a resident, and that was all that defined me, and that was it, you know, five years. And so, yeah, lifting was very important. You know, I would, I commented someone’s post on LinkedIn not too long ago, who apparently she would sneak off to the gym to. To work out when she could. And I thought I was the only one that did that. I would literally do that, you know, if there was a break, I would lift and go exercise and just let off steam. And for me, that was really important. and I just try to stay active. You know, I would take the stairs, and I think activity just in general, just in hindsight, was actually a way to really clear my mind and just decompress. And I didn’t actually realize I was doing it for that purpose, but I think that was, for me, one of the biggest purposes. and my wife and I, at the time, we would, you know, you didn’t get much vacation. We got a few weeks a year, I think, which was great back then. And so, we would always plan to, do something nice and have an intentional plan, something to look forward to. So that was really important. Right. go through these three month rigorous spurts and then have something really nice, look forward together. So always having, I guess, hope for something in the near future to enjoy. When your day to day wasn’t always that enjoyable, it was really important for our stress management time.

Dr. Chris Myers: So, love it.

You talk about setting boundaries as a physician to manage stress

So do you do continues kind of the same practices now, or have you picked up some other techniques that you kind of implement these days?

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, I mean, I think back then, I, you know, I think in med school, college, residency, you know, I, think mental health, mental wellness wasn’t really ever talked about or, you know, it’s definitely much more talked about now, which is really good burnout. I don’t even remember hearing that term ever back then. Right. I mean, now you hear about it because it does happen. I mean, I saw people burning out, but I didn’t know that’s what it was. Right. I didn’t know actually was a thing. so I think just over the years, I’ve become more diligent about, you know, paying attention to, you know, little things, and it might be, you know, what am I feeling today? Right? So a lot of people call this mindfulness, I guess, which. Yeah, I guess that works. So just be more mindful about how I feel, what’s causing me to feel that way. You know, just. Just being intentional about how I think and do things each and every day has been really helpful, for me, in, like, managing stress. and I think, you know, setting boundaries. I think I used to think, or, I should say I did used to think that you couldn’t have boundaries as a physician. Right. You know, I’m a physician. I got to be on all the time, and that’s the primary thing, which at times it is, right. At times, I have to make sacrifices and, you know, go in and take care of patient, middle night. But other times, I need to shut my phone off, you know, and focus on, you know, my family, my kids, or. Or something else. And I think, really, setting barriers and boundaries is important, but I think, at least in my training, that was, we were taught to do the exact opposite.

Dr. Chris Myers: Oh, really?

Dr. David Hall: So that.

Dr. Chris Myers: Okay.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, I think we weren’t really encouraged to have boundaries. It was expected that, you know, we were just urology residents and urologists and that, you know, so I think that has shifted a bit in the mainstream kind of culture. But I think specifically, for me, I’ve definitely shifted, to have more of a boundary focused, you know, approach to things. So that’s, beautiful.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, that’s great. So, yeah, I mean, wow, that’s. That’s a lot to take in. But I love the fact that you talk about boundaries. That’s something that it gets harder and harder every day with the smartphone. Yeah, yeah. You attach, and I imagine a lot of professionals have two and three cell phones that they’re conducting business on and be able to shut those off.

For stress management, a lot of guys say they’re not stressed

So, kind of related back to your company in this kind of that stress side with the education that you provide. What are some of the tips and tools that you provide to your clientele?

Dr. David Hall: Mm For stress?

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah.

Dr. David Hall: For stress management. Yeah. I mean, I think. I think, again, a lot of this comes back to just, like, recognizing it. Right. I think a lot of guys, I will say, hey, you know, how’s your stress levels? And they say, I’m not stressed. And I’m like, are you sure? And like, well, I don’t think I’m stressed. And then we start to talk about it a bit, and then come to find out they’re actually very stressed, and they just didn’t even realize it. Right. I think it’s. Guys, we don’t tend to focus on our feelings or what. What we’re going through. We tend to just do it. Right. We don’t talk about it. We just do it. That’s kind of a man thing, I think, for a lot of us. And so I think just getting them to open up and, like, identify potential stressors, is the first step. And often those guys then start to realize, oh, I am actually stressed. You’re right. Whereas, most of them. First question is. An answer is, I’m not stressed. They say that repeatedly. so getting them to identify the stressors, is that first step. And then we work on a plan to kind of, work on those. And a lot of it is usually work or home. And again, a lot of that can come down to setting boundaries or just having something like, for example, if they’re really stressed at work and they’re not sleeping well, well, then if we help them eat better and work out and train, they notice, they sleep better, they notice, then they feel better, then their work’s better. It’s kind of a vicious circle. Right. They kind of get, in the wrong circle going the wrong direction. We get them going in the other direction. It’s all kind of tied together, and each improvement helps the other, so.

Dr. Chris Myers: Exactly.

So what are some of the during the identification process

So what are some of the, during the identification process? so what are some of the metrics or signs and symptoms that you kind of teach your clients to look out for or recognize or stress?

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, I mean, I think sleep is a big one. Right. So getting the, quantify the number of hours of sleep, you know, do they go to sleep very quickly? Are they waking up a lot at night? Do they get any hours of sleep? You know, that’s a big one because that’s kind of a sign for me that, you know, if they have a really hard time going to sleep, it’s usually, you know, they’re stressed about their finances, they’re stressed about work. And so that can really help you figure out, you know, what they’re thinking about and then kind of narrow down what to focus on. So, that’s a big one. And I think how they feel. Right. I mean, are they more anxious? Are they concerned about tomorrow? And we kind of dive into their finances, their work scenarios, are they concerned about the stability of their jobs or their issues with their kids? And I think just screening for life, right. Like getting to know them, what their different roles are. Right. Are they a father? Are they a husband? They have a coworker, a business partner? The more roles they have, the more likely they’re going to have stressful scenarios in one of those roles.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah.

Dr. David Hall: and so I think just getting to know their roles and where they’re at in life and what they’re really thinking about is like that those metrics can dive into kind of what’s bothering them and affecting them. But, I don’t have, like, necessarily a specific screening tool, per se, but.

Dr. Chris Myers: No, that’s great. No, that’s perfect. I mean, that’s really what we need, you know? And, not a lot of people know those types of, you know, those correlations.

Breathing can help resolve other sleeping issues as well

And that’s why I wanted to kind of ask it. You’re hitting, you’re, you hit all the. You hit the big ones. It’s the same ones I talk with my clients and my tactical populations on. We see that quite a bit. Same ones. Especially if you’re having trouble falling asleep. Okay, what. What’s causing it? First, you check the advantage environment you’re eating, and then the next is the stress. Right.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah.

Dr. Chris Myers: It’s like, okay, what’s going on? do you have your pavlov’s laws, you know, your pyramid already set up? Right. You kind of check those off, look at that. And then, all right, if everything seems to be a okay, we need to kind of start looking at other things. But typically, it’s in those first three categories. And like you said, that will kind of work it. And then if you can figure that out, it will resolve. It can help resolve the other sleeping issues as well.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Dr. Chris Myers: It’s great.

Dr. David Hall: It’s all connected. All connected.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah. One of the, you know, is controlled, breathing. Yeah. You got your box breathing. You got your four by sevens. Those are big ones that we teach just, you know, with. Obviously, I teach with my clients as well to kind of help calm down, improve the parasympathetic, you know, system, have that take over and.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s funny you say that. Yeah. Actually. So about this time last year, I was really exploring what burnout was more. I saw some colleagues really kind of crash and burn, so to speak. They just were burned out. You know, I think coming out of COVID urologists, we tended to work quite a bit during COVID You know, things could really wait for us. And then after Covid, there was a lot of catch up, pent up demand, and so I saw a lot of colleagues seem to burn out. And so I was really exploring what that was, and I was concerned maybe I was starting to get there. And so I came across, like, polyvagal theory, which is what you’re kind of talking about with the.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, yeah.

Dr. David Hall: So breathing and different exercises to help control that. And so I do utilize some of those. They’re actually really kind of fascinating to. That’s something I was never exposed to until about a year ago. Yeah. So, yeah, super, super cool, super important. So I do. I do a lot of that as well.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, my first. Yeah, my first introduction, to it came across when I was working with a couple of seer instructors, and they taught me the box breathing, and that really helped. But, yeah, like you said, I learned the four by the four. Four, seconds in, 7 seconds out for the, you know, for getting ready for bed.

Dr. David Hall: That.

Dr. Chris Myers: That that’s really helped me a lot, too, as well. And there’s apps out there as well. You. You could find them on the app store. They’re free. You can pay for them. Whatever. But whatever. Yeah, it’s great.

Dr. David Hall: I think for, like, med students and residents, you know, that’s not something we were ever trained in, but I think it should be, like, a core element of, like, medical school training, residency, training like that. Those polyvagal, you know, autonomic control theories are really helpful.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah. And the great thing is, now, with the advent of tech, right, just if you have a smartwatch arm and whatever, you can actively see the improvements on the. On the heart rate, you know, with the increase in the Paris innervation or activation. Excuse me. It’s really neat. You could see it. so, yeah, well, excellent.

What advice would you give the next generation of medical professionals

I mean, yeah, so let’s. Yeah, we’ve covered a lot, and I love it. It’s great. But we talked low t. We talked, you know, the trifecta of it, you know, sleep, nutrition, and food, or, excuse me, hydration and that, you know, we kind of talk burnout. We talk stress. we talked lessons learned. I mean, if you had one piece of advice to give the, next generation of medical professionals, what would you give them?

Dr. David Hall: Can I give two?

Dr. Chris Myers: Sure. Yeah. Gives me one.

Dr. David Hall: Let’s get. Let’s give them two. Yeah. no, it’s a great question. I mean, I think about this sometimes, right? I think a lot, retrospectively, right. What. What do I wish I would have known? Or how could I have done things better, right? The old me. And I think, and this would be great for med students and residences are learning. Just be curious, right? I think in, especially my residency, it wasn’t always, conducive to being as curious as we probably should have been, right? Questions weren’t always maybe welcomed or you’d ask a question, the answer kind of made you think, I probably shouldn’t ask another question. It just wasn’t a very conducive environment for being curious, which. The whole point I’m there is to be curious. Right? So regardless of your environment and regardless of, I think, the situations, you’re in, whether that be a classroom or a clinic or a surgical suite, just be curious. And I think that’s gonna just enhance your education and your training tremendously. Just be curious. Every day. Learn something new. If you don’t understand something, ask questions like, that’s why you’re there. And so I think just be curious. And I think along those lines is be curious with yourself, right? You know, you’re going to be busy as a student, as a resident. And I think I remember me being so busy that I didn’t stop to think about me and who I am and where I’m going and, like, what I’m feeling, what I’m thinking. It was just, just doing, just doing every day. So I think be curious about yourself, too. And that’s especially go through transitions from med school to residency, residency to fellowship. If you do that fellowship, then to practice, like, the more curious you are about yourself and the more you define who you really are and where you want to go, I think that’s going to be very helpful to make sure you end up in the right spot, right direction, basically. and then kind of part of that, I’d say the second part is just keep it simple. You know, the kiss, keep it simple. Stupid, right? But that’s used a lot in finance, is used a lot in business. But I think in healthcare, everything is very complex, right? I mean, you’re learning complex, you know, concepts, procedures. I mean, just the way hospitals and clinics and health system work is very complex. But your day to day, your life, just keep it as simple as you can. And that can apply to your diet, your sleep, the way you manage your stress, for example. Keep it as simple as doing, like, box breathing, like you talked about. and then especially as you, as you have more and more income, as you leave residency and you become an attending, you know, keep it simple because you can get very complex when it comes to your finances, but you don’t need to. Just keep it simple. And I think if, if I could go back, I would have tried to simplify more of my decisions in the past, and I think that would just be super productive. So be curious, keep it simple. And I think that’s some good keys to success.

Dr. Chris Myers: Yeah, exact. Yeah, I love it.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah.

Dr. Chris Myers: do the basics. I love it.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah.

Dr. Chris Myers: Excellent.

Dr. David Hall: Exactly.

Dr. Chris Myers: Well, doctor hall, thank you so much for your time. I know you’re a busy man, but, man, this has been great. I hope we have a chance to speak again here in the near future.

Dr. David Hall: Yeah, hope so, man. I appreciate it. Thanks again for having me on.

Dr. Chris Myers: Appreciate it. All right, thank you. And to our audience out there. Yeah, thanks for, I hope you enjoyed this, episode. and again, if you like what we’re doing, give us a, like, tickle that bell. Keep it all coming. Till next time, have a great one. Ahodat, media production.